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Doma

Jul 16, 04 - 3:24 PM

Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall

This Forum area will be used to discuss Randy Shankle and the Church in Marshall. Please keep such subject matter in here and other subjects out. As many people may easily be offended. This does not mean that a person can't ask questions or respond. I am just trying to keep things neat and tidy as well as appropriate. Thank you.

Doma

Jul 16th, 2004 - 4:00 PM

Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall

http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/shankle.html

For 10 years I have remained neutral on Randy Shankle and the Church in Marshall, not until this July of 2004 did I know things have deteriorated there. I have learned from a very reliable source, and this is testified by others that Randy now has crossed over into Shepherding type of ministry. He claims to know the will of God for people's lives and will step into households and undermine relationships and Biblical headship authority. He states that a woman was God's daughter before she was anyone's wife and will use such an approach to make entry and undermine the husband's position. It appears there are a growing number of divorces in the church and some which the administration is agreeing to.
However, I remain the same with the way of healing and growing beyond any problems at or from the Church in Marshall.

Why should someone's mistake done to me or others cause me to be bitter and lose God's blessings. Randy and other ministers of God, have taught me that not forgiving others keeps you hurt and away from God, not them.

Math 6: MKJV
14 For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you;
15 but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Why let someone who hurt continue to hurt you? Forgive them and let go. Now, there may be times where you forgive and shouldn't forget. If someone physically abused you and you knew he had done so to others and had not changed, and then knew someone who was going there, you should perhaps warn them for their safety. There are times where we must remember someone's actions to protect others. Or perhaps for other reasons, but never for negative purposes.

Please note Randy has never physically hurt me or anyone I know. There are some concerns, and this page will address them.

You may claim, I don't know what I am talking about, perhaps some would say I never have been there. Indeed I have, I spent 4 years there. You can read about it at the bottom end of my very long testimony found here:

http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/testimony.html

Do you want to see Randy come down? Do you want to see him fall? You need to pray for your enemies and love them is what Jesus taught.

Mt:5:44: But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

How can you get better if you are getting bitter? Bitterness will take away your betterness, you need to repent, and forgive him and them.

Do you know that Randy knows his problem? I heard him say it in a service in public. He claimed he would not build the temple. He would be unsuccessful in his continuing vision. Why? He claimed he was a man of war like David.

If he has attacked you. Love him and pray for him. This man of God will not succeed and he knows it. The days of his glory are done. God used him, and may still use him, but not to the success he hoped for. He will not see the apostolic take over. For 2 reasons;

1. Because he is a man of war
2. Because that is NOT the plan of God

The church will become united again some day as he sees, in power. But this will take place after the rapture. I don't preach the same pretrib rapture you have heard about. Half the church will be left behind, and those who stay will eventually finally become united and then a new full apostolic age will emerge.

I discuss how this takes place here:

http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/prophecy.html

No, the Kingdom of God will not come as Randy hopes, and he will not be ushering it in, not unless he gets left behind...

There is a group or perhaps a few now that have left the Church in Marshall that have taken this Kingdom to come message to far. It is the Kingdom Nowers, or even the Manifest Sons of God movement. I lost some dear folks to a church split at Marshall on this. Some folks believe that if we become holy enough we will be able to walk through walls and such. And this in turn will cause Jesus to return and begin the millennia. Randy doesn't follow that but close enough that such folk keep getting found in his church that fall for it.

Also Randy has claimed, without naming the author, that Watchman Nee is a favorite of his. I cannot remember the quote, but he said something that he believed everything that Nee wrote. Without naming Nee, of which I discovered who later privately.

Did you know Watchman Nee corrects one of Randy's pet teachings?

Randy teaches that the born again christian is without sin. That it is the soul that sins, but the believer is now sin free in his spirit and he calls this the divine nature.

This Divine Nature teaching has caused a ruckus by many, thinking Randy teaches that humans become gods. That is NOT what he teaches at all, but that sin nature leaves and God Himself dwells in the human spirit. conti

Doma

Jul 16th, 2004 - 4:03 PM

Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall

The Divine Nature is God Himself.

Nee will not doubt, and neither do I that believers are indeed the temple of God, but we still have sin in our spirit. Nee proves this point by using one of Randy's other teachings against him.

Randy has another teaching called "The Fruit of it's Kind" or something like that. Nee say's if 2 born again christians got married and had a baby, that if they truly were without sin, there baby would be born sinless. It would be a fruit of its kind. This of coarse does not happen. Because, the parents are not without sin.

Those of you familiar with the Randy camp should know mankind is born into sin, even within christian marriages, thus Randy should realize thru his own teaching he has an error here. Experience itself should teach us this.

Watchman Nee proves this further with scripture:

Rom 6:
6: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

The word destroyed gives the wrong impression, it actually means "unemployed" according to Nee.

The work of the cross, unemploys sin. It is still there, it has been made without working power. But it is still there for you to choose, and choose daily if you so desire. I suggest reading the rest of Rom 6.

Nee died in like 1967 or so, long before Randy ever came to ministry, Nee through his teaches shows the errors that Randy took up on this area. But besides that I believe Randy's Merismos teaching is very good, Watchman Nee teaches similar things. And so do I like here:

http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/soul.html

Randy and his team also seemed to ignore Revelations for doctrine. They hate discussing and teaching on end time events. This I think flies in the face of one of their own favorite verses:

2Tm:3:16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

If all scripture is good for doctrine, then revelations is indeed included. Randy had no need to fear this, and neither do we.

I have been told that the late Kenneth Hagin Sr. wrote a book about Randy Shankle and the apostolic movement. I do not know how true this is, but the book does seem to dismantle many of Randy's stances. The book does not name Randy or the Church in Marshall, but does seem to hint or take a direction towards correcting Randy at times. The book is fairly good, but I disagree with Hagin on a few points. Therefore I cannot list them here, but I do recommend the book for all Randy Shankle observers. It is called: He Gave Gifts Unto Men - A Biblical Perspective of Apostles, Prophets, and Pastors

I have heard Randy speak of him going to Hagin years ago, and pleading with him to set up spiritual sons, as Randy believed that Hagin's son, was not taking up his father's vision. Randy said that Hagin seemed to agree with this, supposedly, but never did anything about it. The connection between the 2 of them never clicked and never went any where.

Randy's 2nd wife, Gloria, (I discovered much later he supposedly had a 1st wife but was divorced, I do not know the details nor if it is true) died of cancer I believe, sometime shortly after I left. The story is that several people got cancer and died shortly after I left. It was like a bragging right that the church had never had any funerals while I was there. I don't know if this is a sign that Randy's ministry had lost it's glory some short time after I left, or is coincidence. Personally I do not believe in coincidence and my current pastor doesn't either. But I refuse to take any dogmatic stance on this because I have no word from God. Please note, I do not believe nor am I implying that my departure has anything to do with the loss of Randy's glory. I do believe that I did get a hold of God's will during the time that the glory was fading.

Randy met Gloria thru Kenneth Copeland, who Copeland was trained by or connected to Hagin. Gloria, supposedly was Copeland's secretary, and Randy met her when he met with Copeland years earlier. The relationship between Copeland and Randy never went well either.

When I discovered Gloria had died it struck me bad. I learned about it probably 2 years after it happened or more. I was very saddened, I thought Gloria a wonderful woman.

At this time, I can think of nothing further to add. I am not in any contact with any members. But I do from time to time have contact with a former elder of the Church in Marshall, who is no longer there, and of whom I have great respect.

I wish to admonish those once again who have been there and feel hurt. If you are bitter and negative, I believe that you are forgetting much what you learned. Forgive. Do not forget the good things, the good teachings.

God called me to Marshall. God called many. Therefore God knows that there is good stuff there, or there was, to this day I cannot say ho

Doma

Jul 16th, 2004 - 4:06 PM

Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall

God called me to Marshall. God called many. Therefore God knows that there is good stuff there, or there was, to this day I cannot say how much is good. I am fully persuaded it should be shut down, but I know that only a miracle can do this.. Marshall and Randy have a signature seal on foundations. A good 75%-90% of there foundational teachings are right on, from what was taught before 1994. It's the stuff they build on top of that which has bigger problems. Keep the foundations, correct the errors, and be thankful for the stuff God taught you.

On a Mission

Jul 16th, 2004 - 4:30 PM

Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall

May God have His way in this.

May those of us who have been hurt by this cult be restored.

May our loved ones that are still there see the light and be delivered and restored.

May our loved ones come home. In Jesus Name.

jerry tritle

Aug 4th, 2004 - 9:45 AM

Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall

Hello,
We were a part of the church in the late 80's. That part of our journey led us out of the Charismatic movement completely. We were convinced that the Shankle type of works and their ministries were completely subjective irrationalism. Every so-called prophet did what was right in his own eyes.
We were deceived into thinking that Randy's teachings on the Kingdom of God and the Church were substantive. We found out that Randy imparted all he knew on TV and had nothing to offer when we moved to Marshall to be further taught. He then, like a socio-path, blamed us for coming to Marshall and made us out to be the "bad" ones. We were then accused of having a "spirit of intelligencia." What a bunch of bull sh*t.
Thank God, we have since joined the Catholic Church and have entered Christ's rest--leaving behind the crazy, unbiblical, and hysterical nature of independent Pentecostalism. We do, however, recognize that if we were not to have experienced Marshall, we would not be as matured and blessed as we are today. Today we have assurance. Before going to Marshall, we did not have that about our faith. That is why we must train our children and grandchildren diligently so as to not allow them to be duped into using their resources to migrate to the Pentecostal clowns that have nothing to offer--clouds without rain.
By the way, I may briefly mention our brief stay in East TX while on EWTN, the Journey Home program on 27 Sep at 8PM eastern time.

That's my 3 cents worth,

daniel ornellas

Oct 13th, 2004 - 10:40 PM

Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall

I am a pastors son and I come from South Africa. I went through the school of the prophets of Randy's as my father believed that Randy had the full picture and that the church on earth is babylon. I had a problem with many things that came out of his mouth at that stage. I sat with the leadership and said that any church that believes that they have arrived and the rest of the body are babylon has to be a cult. The deception ran so deep that my father never could escape it. My father left my mom at that stage because randy said that my mom was the seat of satan in our church and then 2 years later burned my dad by stealing all his leadership and started a church of his own in Cape Town. He also stayed in my house at the time that his first wife had died of Cancer and got involved with one of my room mates. He got very raunchy with her while I was around. He even got sent off the beach by a policeman because he was being so sexual with her before they got married. Two weeks later he then promptly married her and whisked her of to Marshall without her even meeting his kids.
How is that.
His teachings are all stolen from books out of the 60's and 70's anyway like watchman nee etc. His lifestyle is a messy affair and he has small man syndrome and has an infatuation with bass pro shop christianity with all his camoflauge etc. he ruined our ministry, my relationship with my dad, very successful church in Cape Town amongst low income people and I am still struggling with forgiveness towards this false prophet. I have no problem in learning to love and forgive this man but I really feel that we will be held accountable to God if we do not warn potential victims of this man and his fleshly carnal destroying spirit

scott

Dec 29th, 2004 - 5:44 PM

Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall

I met the finest scholar, and most devoted Christian friend and prophet living in Marshall; Doug Alexander;
For this reason only I have no regrets about the three hellish tormented oppressive reign of error Randy lorded over us all, young , willing, earnest, obedient , disciples; Shame on you Randy; You should read the United Nations definition of slavery and then repent; God Help you.

Huskie

Feb 2nd, 2005 - 3:40 AM

Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall

Hi

I dicovered this form by accident looking for someone else, I have read the forum replies and felt I should reply as well.

My experience with Randy and CIM goes back to 1989. I attended the SOP classes in 1998 for approx. 4 months. Micheal and Jerry as well as Tracy, whom I connected with the most, where there at that time. It was not my time to stay there, and I left shortly after the SOP classes ended. I moved back to where I came from and attended the church that I was previously attending. A short time after that, the person whom I was staying with in Marshall, from CIM, moved to the state I was in and lived with me for a time. He stated to me that many changes were taking place and felt it was his time to goes. Tracy also came to visit me from California were he had moved after that as well. I attended three camp meetings there during the early 90's. Things were very different from before, especially with the staff and speakers, one meeting I think Randy only spoke once in 6 days.

I became an elder in 1993 and served in the church I had been attending. We were called the church in ***** and my spiritual father at that time was trying to pattern the church after Marshall. I loved it! We were "Word of Faith", but were making the transition to Kingdom principles. 2 years after being ordained, I believe God told me to leave this church. I was teaching disipleship classes, counseling, and speaking in assemblies at this time. I obeyed a little slow, but within two months I had removed my self completely. 6 months after my departure, the church was completely destroyed, not physicaly, but by sin in leadership and many other things. The church, in one day, shut down and the man of God left town. I thought of going to Marshall at this time, but I believe God said no. I stayed in another fellowship for a few years, a charismatic and word teaching church. In 2000, I attended another conference in Marshall, which did nothing for me personally. Visited in 2001 again and the same thing.

Then in 2002, I went to the May meetings. I connected immediatly. I had moved there by July. I want to tell of my experience in the past 2 1/2 years. Also, last month I moved away from Marshall, to a new area completely, for personal reason which the lord directed me in.

In the 2 1/2 years I was there, I attended many services, campmeetings, and "apostolic campiagn" meetings. I witnessed Randy and Jeff speaking, counseling and bishoping men. I also spoke and received counsel from both Randy and Jeff personally.

Now, I have heard lots of stories and witnessed one exodus from this church. I believe many errors were made and the church has changed directions a number of times, and are continuing to change. I also believe the church has a purpose, a direction from God and that Randy and Jeff are annointed men of God.

One thing I have come to realize in my few years as a christian, is that God is a forgiving God. If I look back to the TBN days of Randy's life, I can't but thank Jesus I wasn't in Randy's shoes at that time. I can't imagine the pressure of hundred's of people on a pilgrimage to hear me, and how easy it would be to fail. Maybe not even in God's eyes, but so easy in the eyes of man. Growing up in God myself, there have been so many things I have wished I had never done because of my own immaturity. There have also been times when I stood my ground on what I believe God wanted me to do, and offended people I loved in the proccess. All in all, I grew by my experience. Sometimes taking steps back further than I would have liked. Someone once said, "experience is the worst and the best teacher of all". I understand that in my own life, when at times I wished someone would have just told me what to do so I wouldn't have failed, but grew stronger and wiser because of the experience.

Now, I don't know Ken Copeland personally, but there was a time in my early christian life where I thought he could do no wrong and would have been offended if someone said something nasty about him. Now, I am positive that there are still things Ken has to repent about in his life today. (Don't misunderstand, I love Kenneth Copeland and all the things the Lord has taught me through him.) I say that because I don't think anyone will arrive at complete maturity here on this earth, some will get close, like Copeland, Haggin and Wigglesworth, but we all will still be learning at our time of departure. I have followed the life of my own spiritual father, since he fell in 95'(not on purpose, but through mutual people). And while he hasn't completely turned his life back to God, he has been given opportunity after opportunity from the Lord to restore his life completely, and I think he will continue to be set up by God to come back to Him.

To be continued...

Huskie

Feb 2nd, 2005 - 4:39 AM

Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall 2

Sorry, I am going a bit long, will speed it up...

What I experienced in Marshall was a seasoned, mature eldership and a church that loves God and desires to do His will. I listened very carefully to counsel and words spoken, knowing the dangers of sherparding as lords over people. I never once heard anyone speak into someones life as a directive or an ultimatum. I heard prophesies spoken and then questions asked, like "did that speak to you?" or "did that sound accurate in your life?", and offerings of time to talk to see what the Lord is doing. I witnessed a man stand up in the middle of a service and correct Randy publicly for things he felt in his own heart where wrong. Randy, in responce took a seat, while other people got up and shared scripture concerning the matter, and when these people finished, Randy did get up and asked the man to spend some time with him or another elder and expressed a desire to keep his relationship with this man, without having to have his way. In my own counseling with Randy and Jeff, thoughs, ideas, principles and scripture were given, and also was my chance to choose on my own what direction to take, without any condemnation with what ever choice I made. I was genuinely loved by these men.

I guess what I wanted to say is that these men and women love God, desire His will, and, in my opinion, would never knowingly hurt another child of God. Have they made mistakes? I believe so... So have I and so have you! Will they be perfect from here on in? no... Neither will I and neither will you!

I don't think any one who would come to this forum would deny the truth in some of the revelations Randy has received from God. He has received great revelation and how God uses him with those truths are between God and Randy. The mistakes he may have made are ultimately God's to deal with him about. But I also know that what we keep in our hearts concerning people who have wronged us, doesn't hurt the people that have wronged us, but puts up a wall between ourselves and the Father. Every sin Jesus forgave us, he expects us to forgive as well in ourselves and with others. It makes me think that some day, we will be walking acroos the street in heaven, and we are going to run into someone we didn't forgive or try to understand on earth. I think with the love we will know and the great forgiveness we have been afforded, we would feel rather foolish for not loving that person when we had the chance on earth.

I hope I neither condemned or defended any person in this. I am not answering for Randy, not at all, or defending his life. I am not saying that people didn't get hurt or weren't treated wrongly. To be honest, I couldn't say what really happened in most cases, simply for a lack of being there. But I know that offences come and go with us, in instances when we are both right and wrong. But God commanded us to love and forgive one another, and he is our truth.

People and places are always dynamic, changing without our notice, and things, in man's eyes, are rarely as they seem.

God bless you and may his love increase in you always in His truth!

peanut

Feb 3rd, 2005 - 5:56 PM

Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall

This is in response to Husky:
Very eloquently and tactfully put. We all make our own choices and ultimately were are the ones held responsible for the choices not others. Thank you

Doma

Feb 3rd, 2005 - 7:47 PM

Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall

Huskie,

I appreciate your neutral tone. But even your own testimony here shows you were not in the know. I have testimony that Randy has lied and used lies to destroy a marriage. I just earlier tonite posted the following about elders on another forum:

Jms:3:1: My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

1 Cor 3:
8: Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9: For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10: According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
12: Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13: Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14: If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15: If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

James says that because of this elders/ministers will receive a greater judgment. Paul goes on in detail how this understanding put forth in ministry will produce different levels of work. Some like gold & silver, will pass the judgment and be for God's glory. other teachings will burn like wood and hay.

peanut,

Because of these verses, you are wrong. God will judge the elders greater than the sheep. Yes we are responsible for our choices, but some people were wronged by Randy or CiM from no choice of their own. I know a man who lost his wife because of Randy and CiM and he has never even been there! And you say Randy won't be judged and this man will? Nope.

Huskie

Feb 6th, 2005 - 12:28 AM

Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall

Hi again,

Peanut, thanks, I think you touched the heart of what I was trying to say.

Doma, Hi. They say you should walk a mile in a man's shoes before you ever say anything bad about that man. Personaly, I think this is so you are a mile away and you have his shoes... haha

I take it you are in some form of ministry, you are a man of God at minimum. I don't want to correct you or argue with you, and to be honest, I think I can understand you better than you think. I spent some time myself angry at a certian leadership, I also lost a wife in 1995 to a misguided doctrine, with a 1 1/2 year old daughter in fold. I spent many a night awake, thinking "How could this man have betrade me". My thoughts were futile, because a man didn't betray me at all. With all the anger and all the misunderstanding, when I watch the man leave, I watched a man awakened to his own diseption.

I have ministered, now the better part of my life, and believe me, I have spread around my share of hay and stubble. How about you? I could tell you stories...uugh! But you know what? I have some pure gold out there too. Lots of it!

Maybe a "who casts the first stone" line is in order here. I don't know. I have witnessed 3 churches split in my life where leaders and lay people were my friends. I have been in the know... Confusing place most of the time. Both sides have their stories.

I guess the point of my post was that I saw the hurt in Randy's eyes, at times when he spoke of the past, not always, but in some cases. I think he understands some of the things he has been through and has a greater understanding of human emotion and the will of God. He admits to being legalist at times and wishes some of the grace he understands now was present. Maybe some of the grace you could afford right now.

All my love in Christ.

Doma

Feb 6th, 2005 - 8:20 PM

Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall

quote:
Doma, Hi. They say you should walk a mile in a man's shoes before you ever say anything bad about that man.

reply:
1st off I don't care what "they say" & 2ndly I don't speak bad about Randy, I am not using ill words or even cursing him.

-----------------

quote:
I think I can understand you better than you think. I spent some time myself angry at a certian leadership,

reply:
Sorry I am not angry. I guess, you don't understand me. If you want to see anger, you need to go to the "Emperor is naked" forums, and you will see alot of anger at Randy there. I have forgiven Randy, but this does not excuse his behaviour.

--------------------

quote:
I have spread around my share of hay and stubble. How about you? I could tell you stories...uugh! But you know what? I have some pure gold out there too. Lots of it!

reply:
I am not judging Randy based upon his stubble, altho I do discuss this at my site, I am judging him for his behaviour. The Bible says a Bishop must be blameless, it does not say he must be free of hay & stubble, then we all would be disqualified. Randy has a history of hurting people. Unless he repents, we must take this to the church, since he has failed to those who have spoken to him personaly. A short time ago I tried to contact his ministry and the end result was they attempted to get less people see my site, by them paying for ads at the search engines so folks will go to their site instead, LOL. In fact since they did this more people have been coming to my site. I even have an international viewership. When Rome or the world attempted to stop the gospel, it only grew bigger.

----------------------

quote:
Maybe a "who casts the first stone" line is in order here.

reply:
I have invited Randy and CiM to speak here. The invitation is on my site, publicly. We can discuss hay & stuble doctrines, that would be okay, but that is not the focus of this webpage & forum. It is his behaviour. Have I ever hurt anyone? Sure I have. there is a difference between a lie and a liar, an act of anger and a hostile lifestyle. One is forgiveable, the other keeps you out of the kingdom.

---------------

quote:
I guess the point of my post was that I saw the hurt in Randy's eyes, at times when he spoke of the past, not always, but in some cases. I think he understands some of the things he has been through and has a greater understanding of human emotion and the will of God. He admits to being legalist at times and wishes some of the grace he understands now was present.

reply:
I acknowledge on my website that Randy has professed publicly he will not build the temple. I have spoken to others, even a former elder, who knows Randy has acknowledged problems. But acknowldgement is not a repentance. I even think AA has steps that acknowledgement of a problem is a different step than repentance. But Randy or CiM has also taught there are certain spirits that can not repent. Did they prophesy their own condition?

--------------------

quote:
Maybe some of the grace you could afford right now.

reply:
I am not condeming Randy to hell or the Lake of Fire, I will say he MAY be in danger of losing his place of authority in the Kingdom of God tho. And I am not angry at him.

peanut

Feb 7th, 2005 - 2:54 PM

Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall

why the attack? sorry for asking, but I don't think husky was attacking you. This forum is to speak our minds and if we are attacked for doing so, why would we want to continue posting. I realize as webmaster you can delete posts that are 'aggressive', but we can't delete when we are attacked. Just a question.

Doma

Feb 7th, 2005 - 3:54 PM

Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall

I have noticed folks are very jittery around the Randy Shankle thing. CiM has put alot of fear into folks. Some of it is relevant to God's ways, and some is soulish intimidation.

We are to respect men of God. And as such I speak both positively of Randy & CiM as well as judgmental upon their behaviour, unlike many who are angry. Randy & CiM have done some wonderful things for God, but this does not excuse their behaviour. Nor does my judging of this matter mean I am angry, hostile or attacking anyone who says otherwise. I am not offended.

Alot of folks who are not used to my writing style think that I am these things. It's just that I am a writer and put alot into words to give the greatest amout of communication as possible, so that a lack of communication will not be errored on my part.

There has only been 1 or 2 posts on this forum that have upset me, and that only mildly. And I had to delete 1. In that case, I gave the person over a week to respond and they never did.

I did not attack Husky, I merely answered or responded to his points. I am sorta like Paul. In person I am not as authoritative or strong. But on the net, I get very strong in my response. Not strong in anger, but strong in position. I like to have a solid foundation, and like to be secure in my position. This does not mean I am not teachable or unable to recieve correction, for I have.

Feel free to continue. Even to challenge me, but I will need scripture for offensive & defensive posts. Like I said, even Randy can come on here if he wants. But his postion here is only as a believer and as one of the accused, defending himself. He won't have the authority shut down anyone. But he certainly can correct using the method I just shared above.

The things shared on this forum would get alot of heat on the "Emperor is Naked" forums as there are alot of angry folks over there. There you may not get deleted, but you may get cursed at. here, if you cross a line, I will delete, but you also have the security of knowing I will never curse you or personally attack you because I disagree with you. I will attack your position and your arguements if I believe they are wrong, but I am a level headed man and have years of christian forum experience, and let my discipleship maintain my behaviour.

Hope that helps.

Doma

Aug 14th, 2008 - 12:28 AM

Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall

I will give you (daughter of the most high) 1 week to respond to what I put here. I will allow differing opinion here, however, you must be able to answer for it.

1st off Randy has confessed to all the allegations on the internet. (I believe this occurred Sept 24, 06.) You can try and get the tape, but have heard they dont allow it to go out any more. Wonder what they are hiding?

But Randy has confessed also to being a man of blood. You can hear this yourself by him, as I have the recording on my blog:

http://kingdomgospel.wordpress.com/

Lastly as for hiding behind a bad interpretation of "touch not mine annointed":

http://kingdomgospel.wordpress.com/can-randy-be-accused-publicly/

If 500 people have fulfilled Math 18 would it have no bearing on any who came afterward? That each person must accomplish Math 18 themselves? That would be missing this verse:

16: But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

It only takes 2 or 3 more to become established and before you get to verse 17:

17: And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Jesus does not say that each member of the church must duplicate this process, once the process has been completed. I would understand it would need to be repeated if the person in error received the correction and those correcting him didn't have to complete the whole process and then the accusation came up again. Paul goes onto say this:

Rom 16:17: Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Do we really expect Paul is requiring that each person in Rome to do what Jesus says in Math 18 individually before doing this marking?

If we really believe that, why didn't Jesus say that. And why doesn't those who believe I or anyone else who is error about uncovering Randy take 2 or 3 more to us privately before taking this public like they have on other forums or elsewhere? Wouldn't they need to obey it to us as well?

Lets go back to the 500 people who must confront Randy. Do we really think Randy will submit to 500 individual appointments. Then 500 more with multiple witnesses? And do we think it is just and right that Randy runs about unmarked until those 1000 meetings takes place? How many meetings makes it established? Doesn't scripture say only 2 such meetings?

No, this is ridiculous, and anyone who believes such has a problem in idolatry holding Randy to a level as untouchable, and yet hypocritical if they judge those whom they disagree with, if they haven't followed their own rules on this matter.

This process not only is extra-biblical but is unlogical, and nearly impossible to accomplish.

What is the point of taking it to the church? Is it so the accuser gets to be part of the club of being able to mark the one in error? Because that's what this logic/doctrine leads to. Or is it so that everyone can mark him because its been established?

That position also would create 2 camps within a church. Those that could openly discuss the accused and those that cannot. Isn't that silly? They would have us to believe that Clarence Hill and any other person which held a meeting with Randy with other witnesses and have publicly come forward to make that accusation known, would be the only ones who can actually do the marking of Randy.

There is no earthly way beyond heavens help to have all Randy's accusers meet with him privately 2 times.

Could this be a local rule only? That would mean that Randy could sin against people who are not at CiM and those people would have no ability to bring correction. (How about the divisions he did in Africa?) You also would have a man marked locally but could move on and would not be marked. No, if someone is marked, it is extra local. There is no scriptural support that such things are local.

An elder must be blameless, period.

Eugene Kerns

Sep 30th, 2008 - 2:00 AM

Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall

Dear Doma, the third ark is being built and it sounds like there is a dog chaceing his tail in the inner court, I am not aquainted with the problems that has been going on but I have been recomending the old material from Mr shankle and cim only to find total mayhem has been relesed in the church, hopefully everyone will beable to resolve these issues by the Grace of God, and get there act together before the dairy farmers take over sheperding the sons of God, this realy is the great and terrible days, and some one came in the mist of the pharacies and the saducies and asked of the ressurection, funny,the weak in faith need an apologie, and the arrogent need to see repentance, both are sons of thomas.I just hope that what ever this problem is, all of you involved do not diqualify the work and material that the Lord has labored thruogh all of you, may the guild you thruogh thi fog. your friend in Christ.

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Doma Jul 16, 04 - 3:24 PM	Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall This Forum area will be used to discuss Randy Shankle and the Church in Marshall. Please keep such subject matter in here and other subjects out. As many people may easily be offended. This does not mean that a person can't ask questions or respond. I am just trying to keep things neat and tidy as well as appropriate. Thank you. Email: doma3@hotmail.com http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/
Doma Jul 16th, 2004 - 4:00 PM	Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/shankle.html For 10 years I have remained neutral on Randy Shankle and the Church in Marshall, not until this July of 2004 did I know things have deteriorated there. I have learned from a very reliable source, and this is testified by others that Randy now has crossed over into Shepherding type of ministry. He claims to know the will of God for people's lives and will step into households and undermine relationships and Biblical headship authority. He states that a woman was God's daughter before she was anyone's wife and will use such an approach to make entry and undermine the husband's position. It appears there are a growing number of divorces in the church and some which the administration is agreeing to. However, I remain the same with the way of healing and growing beyond any problems at or from the Church in Marshall. Why should someone's mistake done to me or others cause me to be bitter and lose God's blessings. Randy and other ministers of God, have taught me that not forgiving others keeps you hurt and away from God, not them. Math 6: MKJV 14 For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you; 15 but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Why let someone who hurt continue to hurt you? Forgive them and let go. Now, there may be times where you forgive and shouldn't forget. If someone physically abused you and you knew he had done so to others and had not changed, and then knew someone who was going there, you should perhaps warn them for their safety. There are times where we must remember someone's actions to protect others. Or perhaps for other reasons, but never for negative purposes. Please note Randy has never physically hurt me or anyone I know. There are some concerns, and this page will address them. You may claim, I don't know what I am talking about, perhaps some would say I never have been there. Indeed I have, I spent 4 years there. You can read about it at the bottom end of my very long testimony found here: http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/testimony.html Do you want to see Randy come down? Do you want to see him fall? You need to pray for your enemies and love them is what Jesus taught. Mt:5:44: But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; How can you get better if you are getting bitter? Bitterness will take away your betterness, you need to repent, and forgive him and them. Do you know that Randy knows his problem? I heard him say it in a service in public. He claimed he would not build the temple. He would be unsuccessful in his continuing vision. Why? He claimed he was a man of war like David. If he has attacked you. Love him and pray for him. This man of God will not succeed and he knows it. The days of his glory are done. God used him, and may still use him, but not to the success he hoped for. He will not see the apostolic take over. For 2 reasons; 1. Because he is a man of war 2. Because that is NOT the plan of God The church will become united again some day as he sees, in power. But this will take place after the rapture. I don't preach the same pretrib rapture you have heard about. Half the church will be left behind, and those who stay will eventually finally become united and then a new full apostolic age will emerge. I discuss how this takes place here: http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/prophecy.html No, the Kingdom of God will not come as Randy hopes, and he will not be ushering it in, not unless he gets left behind... There is a group or perhaps a few now that have left the Church in Marshall that have taken this Kingdom to come message to far. It is the Kingdom Nowers, or even the Manifest Sons of God movement. I lost some dear folks to a church split at Marshall on this. Some folks believe that if we become holy enough we will be able to walk through walls and such. And this in turn will cause Jesus to return and begin the millennia. Randy doesn't follow that but close enough that such folk keep getting found in his church that fall for it. Also Randy has claimed, without naming the author, that Watchman Nee is a favorite of his. I cannot remember the quote, but he said something that he believed everything that Nee wrote. Without naming Nee, of which I discovered who later privately. Did you know Watchman Nee corrects one of Randy's pet teachings? Randy teaches that the born again christian is without sin. That it is the soul that sins, but the believer is now sin free in his spirit and he calls this the divine nature. This Divine Nature teaching has caused a ruckus by many, thinking Randy teaches that humans become gods. That is NOT what he teaches at all, but that sin nature leaves and God Himself dwells in the human spirit. conti Email: doma3@hotmail.com http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/
Doma Jul 16th, 2004 - 4:03 PM	Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall The Divine Nature is God Himself. Nee will not doubt, and neither do I that believers are indeed the temple of God, but we still have sin in our spirit. Nee proves this point by using one of Randy's other teachings against him. Randy has another teaching called "The Fruit of it's Kind" or something like that. Nee say's if 2 born again christians got married and had a baby, that if they truly were without sin, there baby would be born sinless. It would be a fruit of its kind. This of coarse does not happen. Because, the parents are not without sin. Those of you familiar with the Randy camp should know mankind is born into sin, even within christian marriages, thus Randy should realize thru his own teaching he has an error here. Experience itself should teach us this. Watchman Nee proves this further with scripture: Rom 6: 6: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. The word destroyed gives the wrong impression, it actually means "unemployed" according to Nee. The work of the cross, unemploys sin. It is still there, it has been made without working power. But it is still there for you to choose, and choose daily if you so desire. I suggest reading the rest of Rom 6. Nee died in like 1967 or so, long before Randy ever came to ministry, Nee through his teaches shows the errors that Randy took up on this area. But besides that I believe Randy's Merismos teaching is very good, Watchman Nee teaches similar things. And so do I like here: http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/soul.html Randy and his team also seemed to ignore Revelations for doctrine. They hate discussing and teaching on end time events. This I think flies in the face of one of their own favorite verses: 2Tm:3:16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: If all scripture is good for doctrine, then revelations is indeed included. Randy had no need to fear this, and neither do we. I have been told that the late Kenneth Hagin Sr. wrote a book about Randy Shankle and the apostolic movement. I do not know how true this is, but the book does seem to dismantle many of Randy's stances. The book does not name Randy or the Church in Marshall, but does seem to hint or take a direction towards correcting Randy at times. The book is fairly good, but I disagree with Hagin on a few points. Therefore I cannot list them here, but I do recommend the book for all Randy Shankle observers. It is called: He Gave Gifts Unto Men - A Biblical Perspective of Apostles, Prophets, and Pastors I have heard Randy speak of him going to Hagin years ago, and pleading with him to set up spiritual sons, as Randy believed that Hagin's son, was not taking up his father's vision. Randy said that Hagin seemed to agree with this, supposedly, but never did anything about it. The connection between the 2 of them never clicked and never went any where. Randy's 2nd wife, Gloria, (I discovered much later he supposedly had a 1st wife but was divorced, I do not know the details nor if it is true) died of cancer I believe, sometime shortly after I left. The story is that several people got cancer and died shortly after I left. It was like a bragging right that the church had never had any funerals while I was there. I don't know if this is a sign that Randy's ministry had lost it's glory some short time after I left, or is coincidence. Personally I do not believe in coincidence and my current pastor doesn't either. But I refuse to take any dogmatic stance on this because I have no word from God. Please note, I do not believe nor am I implying that my departure has anything to do with the loss of Randy's glory. I do believe that I did get a hold of God's will during the time that the glory was fading. Randy met Gloria thru Kenneth Copeland, who Copeland was trained by or connected to Hagin. Gloria, supposedly was Copeland's secretary, and Randy met her when he met with Copeland years earlier. The relationship between Copeland and Randy never went well either. When I discovered Gloria had died it struck me bad. I learned about it probably 2 years after it happened or more. I was very saddened, I thought Gloria a wonderful woman. At this time, I can think of nothing further to add. I am not in any contact with any members. But I do from time to time have contact with a former elder of the Church in Marshall, who is no longer there, and of whom I have great respect. I wish to admonish those once again who have been there and feel hurt. If you are bitter and negative, I believe that you are forgetting much what you learned. Forgive. Do not forget the good things, the good teachings. God called me to Marshall. God called many. Therefore God knows that there is good stuff there, or there was, to this day I cannot say ho Email: doma3@hotmail.com http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/
Doma Jul 16th, 2004 - 4:06 PM	Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall God called me to Marshall. God called many. Therefore God knows that there is good stuff there, or there was, to this day I cannot say how much is good. I am fully persuaded it should be shut down, but I know that only a miracle can do this.. Marshall and Randy have a signature seal on foundations. A good 75%-90% of there foundational teachings are right on, from what was taught before 1994. It's the stuff they build on top of that which has bigger problems. Keep the foundations, correct the errors, and be thankful for the stuff God taught you. Email: doma3@hotmail.com http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/
On a Mission Jul 16th, 2004 - 4:30 PM	Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall May God have His way in this. May those of us who have been hurt by this cult be restored. May our loved ones that are still there see the light and be delivered and restored. May our loved ones come home. In Jesus Name. Email: kfuentes@the-beach.net
jerry tritle Aug 4th, 2004 - 9:45 AM	Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall Hello, We were a part of the church in the late 80's. That part of our journey led us out of the Charismatic movement completely. We were convinced that the Shankle type of works and their ministries were completely subjective irrationalism. Every so-called prophet did what was right in his own eyes. We were deceived into thinking that Randy's teachings on the Kingdom of God and the Church were substantive. We found out that Randy imparted all he knew on TV and had nothing to offer when we moved to Marshall to be further taught. He then, like a socio-path, blamed us for coming to Marshall and made us out to be the "bad" ones. We were then accused of having a "spirit of intelligencia." What a bunch of bull sht. Thank God, we have since joined the Catholic Church and have entered Christ's rest--leaving behind the crazy, unbiblical, and hysterical nature of independent Pentecostalism. We do, however, recognize that if we were not to have experienced Marshall, we would not be as matured and blessed as we are today. Today we have assurance. Before going to Marshall, we did not have that about our faith. That is why we must train our children and grandchildren diligently so as to not allow them to be duped into using their resources to migrate to the Pentecostal clowns that have nothing to offer--clouds without rain. By the way, I may briefly mention our brief stay in East TX while on EWTN, the Journey Home program on 27 Sep at 8PM eastern time. That's my 3 cents worth, Email:* gerald.tritle@btas.com
daniel ornellas Oct 13th, 2004 - 10:40 PM	Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall I am a pastors son and I come from South Africa. I went through the school of the prophets of Randy's as my father believed that Randy had the full picture and that the church on earth is babylon. I had a problem with many things that came out of his mouth at that stage. I sat with the leadership and said that any church that believes that they have arrived and the rest of the body are babylon has to be a cult. The deception ran so deep that my father never could escape it. My father left my mom at that stage because randy said that my mom was the seat of satan in our church and then 2 years later burned my dad by stealing all his leadership and started a church of his own in Cape Town. He also stayed in my house at the time that his first wife had died of Cancer and got involved with one of my room mates. He got very raunchy with her while I was around. He even got sent off the beach by a policeman because he was being so sexual with her before they got married. Two weeks later he then promptly married her and whisked her of to Marshall without her even meeting his kids. How is that. His teachings are all stolen from books out of the 60's and 70's anyway like watchman nee etc. His lifestyle is a messy affair and he has small man syndrome and has an infatuation with bass pro shop christianity with all his camoflauge etc. he ruined our ministry, my relationship with my dad, very successful church in Cape Town amongst low income people and I am still struggling with forgiveness towards this false prophet. I have no problem in learning to love and forgive this man but I really feel that we will be held accountable to God if we do not warn potential victims of this man and his fleshly carnal destroying spirit Email: daniel@tree63.com
scott Dec 29th, 2004 - 5:44 PM	Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall I met the finest scholar, and most devoted Christian friend and prophet living in Marshall; Doug Alexander; For this reason only I have no regrets about the three hellish tormented oppressive reign of error Randy lorded over us all, young , willing, earnest, obedient , disciples; Shame on you Randy; You should read the United Nations definition of slavery and then repent; God Help you. Email: jeanscottbenson
Huskie Feb 2nd, 2005 - 3:40 AM	Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall Hi I dicovered this form by accident looking for someone else, I have read the forum replies and felt I should reply as well. My experience with Randy and CIM goes back to 1989. I attended the SOP classes in 1998 for approx. 4 months. Micheal and Jerry as well as Tracy, whom I connected with the most, where there at that time. It was not my time to stay there, and I left shortly after the SOP classes ended. I moved back to where I came from and attended the church that I was previously attending. A short time after that, the person whom I was staying with in Marshall, from CIM, moved to the state I was in and lived with me for a time. He stated to me that many changes were taking place and felt it was his time to goes. Tracy also came to visit me from California were he had moved after that as well. I attended three camp meetings there during the early 90's. Things were very different from before, especially with the staff and speakers, one meeting I think Randy only spoke once in 6 days. I became an elder in 1993 and served in the church I had been attending. We were called the church in *** and my spiritual father at that time was trying to pattern the church after Marshall. I loved it! We were "Word of Faith", but were making the transition to Kingdom principles. 2 years after being ordained, I believe God told me to leave this church. I was teaching disipleship classes, counseling, and speaking in assemblies at this time. I obeyed a little slow, but within two months I had removed my self completely. 6 months after my departure, the church was completely destroyed, not physicaly, but by sin in leadership and many other things. The church, in one day, shut down and the man of God left town. I thought of going to Marshall at this time, but I believe God said no. I stayed in another fellowship for a few years, a charismatic and word teaching church. In 2000, I attended another conference in Marshall, which did nothing for me personally. Visited in 2001 again and the same thing. Then in 2002, I went to the May meetings. I connected immediatly. I had moved there by July. I want to tell of my experience in the past 2 1/2 years. Also, last month I moved away from Marshall, to a new area completely, for personal reason which the lord directed me in. In the 2 1/2 years I was there, I attended many services, campmeetings, and "apostolic campiagn" meetings. I witnessed Randy and Jeff speaking, counseling and bishoping men. I also spoke and received counsel from both Randy and Jeff personally. Now, I have heard lots of stories and witnessed one exodus from this church. I believe many errors were made and the church has changed directions a number of times, and are continuing to change. I also believe the church has a purpose, a direction from God and that Randy and Jeff are annointed men of God. One thing I have come to realize in my few years as a christian, is that God is a forgiving God. If I look back to the TBN days of Randy's life, I can't but thank Jesus I wasn't in Randy's shoes at that time. I can't imagine the pressure of hundred's of people on a pilgrimage to hear me, and how easy it would be to fail. Maybe not even in God's eyes, but so easy in the eyes of man. Growing up in God myself, there have been so many things I have wished I had never done because of my own immaturity. There have also been times when I stood my ground on what I believe God wanted me to do, and offended people I loved in the proccess. All in all, I grew by my experience. Sometimes taking steps back further than I would have liked. Someone once said, "experience is the worst and the best teacher of all". I understand that in my own life, when at times I wished someone would have just told me what to do so I wouldn't have failed, but grew stronger and wiser because of the experience. Now, I don't know Ken Copeland personally, but there was a time in my early christian life where I thought he could do no wrong and would have been offended if someone said something nasty about him. Now, I am positive that there are still things Ken has to repent about in his life today. (Don't misunderstand, I love Kenneth Copeland and all the things the Lord has taught me through him.) I say that because I don't think anyone will arrive at complete maturity here on this earth, some will get close, like Copeland, Haggin and Wigglesworth, but we all will still be learning at our time of departure. I have followed the life of my own spiritual father, since he fell in 95'(not on purpose, but through mutual people). And while he hasn't completely turned his life back to God, he has been given opportunity after opportunity from the Lord to restore his life completely, and I think he will continue to be set up by God to come back to Him. To be continued... Email:** pmiller7447@yahoo.com
Huskie Feb 2nd, 2005 - 4:39 AM	Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall 2 Sorry, I am going a bit long, will speed it up... What I experienced in Marshall was a seasoned, mature eldership and a church that loves God and desires to do His will. I listened very carefully to counsel and words spoken, knowing the dangers of sherparding as lords over people. I never once heard anyone speak into someones life as a directive or an ultimatum. I heard prophesies spoken and then questions asked, like "did that speak to you?" or "did that sound accurate in your life?", and offerings of time to talk to see what the Lord is doing. I witnessed a man stand up in the middle of a service and correct Randy publicly for things he felt in his own heart where wrong. Randy, in responce took a seat, while other people got up and shared scripture concerning the matter, and when these people finished, Randy did get up and asked the man to spend some time with him or another elder and expressed a desire to keep his relationship with this man, without having to have his way. In my own counseling with Randy and Jeff, thoughs, ideas, principles and scripture were given, and also was my chance to choose on my own what direction to take, without any condemnation with what ever choice I made. I was genuinely loved by these men. I guess what I wanted to say is that these men and women love God, desire His will, and, in my opinion, would never knowingly hurt another child of God. Have they made mistakes? I believe so... So have I and so have you! Will they be perfect from here on in? no... Neither will I and neither will you! I don't think any one who would come to this forum would deny the truth in some of the revelations Randy has received from God. He has received great revelation and how God uses him with those truths are between God and Randy. The mistakes he may have made are ultimately God's to deal with him about. But I also know that what we keep in our hearts concerning people who have wronged us, doesn't hurt the people that have wronged us, but puts up a wall between ourselves and the Father. Every sin Jesus forgave us, he expects us to forgive as well in ourselves and with others. It makes me think that some day, we will be walking acroos the street in heaven, and we are going to run into someone we didn't forgive or try to understand on earth. I think with the love we will know and the great forgiveness we have been afforded, we would feel rather foolish for not loving that person when we had the chance on earth. I hope I neither condemned or defended any person in this. I am not answering for Randy, not at all, or defending his life. I am not saying that people didn't get hurt or weren't treated wrongly. To be honest, I couldn't say what really happened in most cases, simply for a lack of being there. But I know that offences come and go with us, in instances when we are both right and wrong. But God commanded us to love and forgive one another, and he is our truth. People and places are always dynamic, changing without our notice, and things, in man's eyes, are rarely as they seem. God bless you and may his love increase in you always in His truth! Email: pmiller7447@yahoo.com
peanut Feb 3rd, 2005 - 5:56 PM	Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall This is in response to Husky: Very eloquently and tactfully put. We all make our own choices and ultimately were are the ones held responsible for the choices not others. Thank you Email: kpbsd@hotmail.com
Doma Feb 3rd, 2005 - 7:47 PM	Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall Huskie, I appreciate your neutral tone. But even your own testimony here shows you were not in the know. I have testimony that Randy has lied and used lies to destroy a marriage. I just earlier tonite posted the following about elders on another forum: Jms:3:1: My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation. 1 Cor 3: 8: Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. 9: For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. 10: According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 12: Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13: Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14: If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15: If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. James says that because of this elders/ministers will receive a greater judgment. Paul goes on in detail how this understanding put forth in ministry will produce different levels of work. Some like gold & silver, will pass the judgment and be for God's glory. other teachings will burn like wood and hay. peanut, Because of these verses, you are wrong. God will judge the elders greater than the sheep. Yes we are responsible for our choices, but some people were wronged by Randy or CiM from no choice of their own. I know a man who lost his wife because of Randy and CiM and he has never even been there! And you say Randy won't be judged and this man will? Nope. Email: http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/contact.html
Huskie Feb 6th, 2005 - 12:28 AM	Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall Hi again, Peanut, thanks, I think you touched the heart of what I was trying to say. Doma, Hi. They say you should walk a mile in a man's shoes before you ever say anything bad about that man. Personaly, I think this is so you are a mile away and you have his shoes... haha I take it you are in some form of ministry, you are a man of God at minimum. I don't want to correct you or argue with you, and to be honest, I think I can understand you better than you think. I spent some time myself angry at a certian leadership, I also lost a wife in 1995 to a misguided doctrine, with a 1 1/2 year old daughter in fold. I spent many a night awake, thinking "How could this man have betrade me". My thoughts were futile, because a man didn't betray me at all. With all the anger and all the misunderstanding, when I watch the man leave, I watched a man awakened to his own diseption. I have ministered, now the better part of my life, and believe me, I have spread around my share of hay and stubble. How about you? I could tell you stories...uugh! But you know what? I have some pure gold out there too. Lots of it! Maybe a "who casts the first stone" line is in order here. I don't know. I have witnessed 3 churches split in my life where leaders and lay people were my friends. I have been in the know... Confusing place most of the time. Both sides have their stories. I guess the point of my post was that I saw the hurt in Randy's eyes, at times when he spoke of the past, not always, but in some cases. I think he understands some of the things he has been through and has a greater understanding of human emotion and the will of God. He admits to being legalist at times and wishes some of the grace he understands now was present. Maybe some of the grace you could afford right now. All my love in Christ. Email: pmiller7447@yahoo.com
Doma Feb 6th, 2005 - 8:20 PM	Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall quote: Doma, Hi. They say you should walk a mile in a man's shoes before you ever say anything bad about that man. reply: 1st off I don't care what "they say" & 2ndly I don't speak bad about Randy, I am not using ill words or even cursing him. ----------------- quote: I think I can understand you better than you think. I spent some time myself angry at a certian leadership, reply: Sorry I am not angry. I guess, you don't understand me. If you want to see anger, you need to go to the "Emperor is naked" forums, and you will see alot of anger at Randy there. I have forgiven Randy, but this does not excuse his behaviour. -------------------- quote: I have spread around my share of hay and stubble. How about you? I could tell you stories...uugh! But you know what? I have some pure gold out there too. Lots of it! reply: I am not judging Randy based upon his stubble, altho I do discuss this at my site, I am judging him for his behaviour. The Bible says a Bishop must be blameless, it does not say he must be free of hay & stubble, then we all would be disqualified. Randy has a history of hurting people. Unless he repents, we must take this to the church, since he has failed to those who have spoken to him personaly. A short time ago I tried to contact his ministry and the end result was they attempted to get less people see my site, by them paying for ads at the search engines so folks will go to their site instead, LOL. In fact since they did this more people have been coming to my site. I even have an international viewership. When Rome or the world attempted to stop the gospel, it only grew bigger. ---------------------- quote: Maybe a "who casts the first stone" line is in order here. reply: I have invited Randy and CiM to speak here. The invitation is on my site, publicly. We can discuss hay & stuble doctrines, that would be okay, but that is not the focus of this webpage & forum. It is his behaviour. Have I ever hurt anyone? Sure I have. there is a difference between a lie and a liar, an act of anger and a hostile lifestyle. One is forgiveable, the other keeps you out of the kingdom. --------------- quote: I guess the point of my post was that I saw the hurt in Randy's eyes, at times when he spoke of the past, not always, but in some cases. I think he understands some of the things he has been through and has a greater understanding of human emotion and the will of God. He admits to being legalist at times and wishes some of the grace he understands now was present. reply: I acknowledge on my website that Randy has professed publicly he will not build the temple. I have spoken to others, even a former elder, who knows Randy has acknowledged problems. But acknowldgement is not a repentance. I even think AA has steps that acknowledgement of a problem is a different step than repentance. But Randy or CiM has also taught there are certain spirits that can not repent. Did they prophesy their own condition? -------------------- quote: Maybe some of the grace you could afford right now. reply: I am not condeming Randy to hell or the Lake of Fire, I will say he MAY be in danger of losing his place of authority in the Kingdom of God tho. And I am not angry at him. Email: http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/contact.html
peanut Feb 7th, 2005 - 2:54 PM	Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall why the attack? sorry for asking, but I don't think husky was attacking you. This forum is to speak our minds and if we are attacked for doing so, why would we want to continue posting. I realize as webmaster you can delete posts that are 'aggressive', but we can't delete when we are attacked. Just a question. Email: kpbsd@hotmail.com
Doma Feb 7th, 2005 - 3:54 PM	Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall I have noticed folks are very jittery around the Randy Shankle thing. CiM has put alot of fear into folks. Some of it is relevant to God's ways, and some is soulish intimidation. We are to respect men of God. And as such I speak both positively of Randy & CiM as well as judgmental upon their behaviour, unlike many who are angry. Randy & CiM have done some wonderful things for God, but this does not excuse their behaviour. Nor does my judging of this matter mean I am angry, hostile or attacking anyone who says otherwise. I am not offended. Alot of folks who are not used to my writing style think that I am these things. It's just that I am a writer and put alot into words to give the greatest amout of communication as possible, so that a lack of communication will not be errored on my part. There has only been 1 or 2 posts on this forum that have upset me, and that only mildly. And I had to delete 1. In that case, I gave the person over a week to respond and they never did. I did not attack Husky, I merely answered or responded to his points. I am sorta like Paul. In person I am not as authoritative or strong. But on the net, I get very strong in my response. Not strong in anger, but strong in position. I like to have a solid foundation, and like to be secure in my position. This does not mean I am not teachable or unable to recieve correction, for I have. Feel free to continue. Even to challenge me, but I will need scripture for offensive & defensive posts. Like I said, even Randy can come on here if he wants. But his postion here is only as a believer and as one of the accused, defending himself. He won't have the authority shut down anyone. But he certainly can correct using the method I just shared above. The things shared on this forum would get alot of heat on the "Emperor is Naked" forums as there are alot of angry folks over there. There you may not get deleted, but you may get cursed at. here, if you cross a line, I will delete, but you also have the security of knowing I will never curse you or personally attack you because I disagree with you. I will attack your position and your arguements if I believe they are wrong, but I am a level headed man and have years of christian forum experience, and let my discipleship maintain my behaviour. Hope that helps. Email: http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/contact.html
Doma Aug 14th, 2008 - 12:28 AM	Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall I will give you (daughter of the most high) 1 week to respond to what I put here. I will allow differing opinion here, however, you must be able to answer for it. 1st off Randy has confessed to all the allegations on the internet. (I believe this occurred Sept 24, 06.) You can try and get the tape, but have heard they dont allow it to go out any more. Wonder what they are hiding? But Randy has confessed also to being a man of blood. You can hear this yourself by him, as I have the recording on my blog: http://kingdomgospel.wordpress.com/ Lastly as for hiding behind a bad interpretation of "touch not mine annointed": http://kingdomgospel.wordpress.com/can-randy-be-accused-publicly/ If 500 people have fulfilled Math 18 would it have no bearing on any who came afterward? That each person must accomplish Math 18 themselves? That would be missing this verse: 16: But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. It only takes 2 or 3 more to become established and before you get to verse 17: 17: And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Jesus does not say that each member of the church must duplicate this process, once the process has been completed. I would understand it would need to be repeated if the person in error received the correction and those correcting him didn't have to complete the whole process and then the accusation came up again. Paul goes onto say this: Rom 16:17: Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Do we really expect Paul is requiring that each person in Rome to do what Jesus says in Math 18 individually before doing this marking? If we really believe that, why didn't Jesus say that. And why doesn't those who believe I or anyone else who is error about uncovering Randy take 2 or 3 more to us privately before taking this public like they have on other forums or elsewhere? Wouldn't they need to obey it to us as well? Lets go back to the 500 people who must confront Randy. Do we really think Randy will submit to 500 individual appointments. Then 500 more with multiple witnesses? And do we think it is just and right that Randy runs about unmarked until those 1000 meetings takes place? How many meetings makes it established? Doesn't scripture say only 2 such meetings? No, this is ridiculous, and anyone who believes such has a problem in idolatry holding Randy to a level as untouchable, and yet hypocritical if they judge those whom they disagree with, if they haven't followed their own rules on this matter. This process not only is extra-biblical but is unlogical, and nearly impossible to accomplish. What is the point of taking it to the church? Is it so the accuser gets to be part of the club of being able to mark the one in error? Because that's what this logic/doctrine leads to. Or is it so that everyone can mark him because its been established? That position also would create 2 camps within a church. Those that could openly discuss the accused and those that cannot. Isn't that silly? They would have us to believe that Clarence Hill and any other person which held a meeting with Randy with other witnesses and have publicly come forward to make that accusation known, would be the only ones who can actually do the marking of Randy. There is no earthly way beyond heavens help to have all Randy's accusers meet with him privately 2 times. Could this be a local rule only? That would mean that Randy could sin against people who are not at CiM and those people would have no ability to bring correction. (How about the divisions he did in Africa?) You also would have a man marked locally but could move on and would not be marked. No, if someone is marked, it is extra local. There is no scriptural support that such things are local. An elder must be blameless, period. Email: http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/contact.html
Eugene Kerns Sep 30th, 2008 - 2:00 AM	Re: Randy Shankle & The Church in Marshall Dear Doma, the third ark is being built and it sounds like there is a dog chaceing his tail in the inner court, I am not aquainted with the problems that has been going on but I have been recomending the old material from Mr shankle and cim only to find total mayhem has been relesed in the church, hopefully everyone will beable to resolve these issues by the Grace of God, and get there act together before the dairy farmers take over sheperding the sons of God, this realy is the great and terrible days, and some one came in the mist of the pharacies and the saducies and asked of the ressurection, funny,the weak in faith need an apologie, and the arrogent need to see repentance, both are sons of thomas.I just hope that what ever this problem is, all of you involved do not diqualify the work and material that the Lord has labored thruogh all of you, may the guild you thruogh thi fog. your friend in Christ. Email: roamcolo@q.com

	The Kingdom-Gospel Forums If you wish for more info on Randy Shankle or the Church in Marshall go here: http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/shankle.html I also have started a blog On Randy Shankle & CiM here: http://kingdomgospel.wordpress.com/tag/randy-shankle-the-church-in-marshall/
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